Why Not Trollism?

There has been a lot of discussion, here, about trolls recently. There are those that believe they are unfairly singled out for troll ratings, and there are those that believe that their ability to troll rate was unfairly taken away. I would like to make a few suggestions regading this issue of trollism.

At this point, I believe that any posts that are made for the sole purpose of keeping us divided deserve, in the least, to be troll rated.

It's getting late in the game, now, and we have to pay serious attention to building unity in the democratc party. Devisive posts only serve to bolster John McCain.

I have suggested that before we post any diaries or comments, we should, first ask ourselves if the post will further the cause of unity, and if you can't answer yes to that--then don't post it. It's as simple as that.

We should all be here for the same purposes and that is to elect a democrat to the White House this November, and to expand our majorities in the House and Senate. If you have another purpose for being here, and can't adhere to electing democrats then you, likely, should be troll rated.

I know some people can't get over their personal feelings towards one or the other candidates. Well, that's fine, but take it some place else. You can even create your own blog. Cyber space is large and expansive, and there are probably others with similar thoughts who await you.

The business, here, is too important for any of that divisive nonsense. And I know there may be those that say, oh come on, you're taking it all too seriously, and they are correct, I am, and it's only because we are involved in serious business.

We are trying to elect people who will end this war, so are troops can come home alive and well and not have to fight any longer in a war that should have never started. More than four thousand Americans have already died, along with hundreds of thousands of others. Does it get more serious than that?

We need people in office who will provide us with the health care system that we need, because too many people are dying needlessly when they can't afford health care. It doesn't get more serious than that either.

We need to elect leaders who will turn this economy around, because too many of us are hurt by an economy that is headed for recession and maybe even worse. Is that serious? You bet it is.

We need leaders who will protect our civil liberties, not chip away at them; nothing is more important.

We want people in office who will protect our environment, and begin to reverse the damage that has been done to our world; nothing is more serious for the coming generations.

We don't need the people who will keep us divided. If you have come, here, to spread divisivness, you're not wanted here. If you are, here, because you didn't get your way in this primary election, and therefore, you don't care if you bolster John McCain, you're not needed here; go directly to JohnMcCain.com. And if you think, you can keep us divided, you are wrong.

Most the folks, here, know what's at stake, and they know we need unity. They know we need to bring our two powerful forces, together. They know, fully well, that once we are united, there is nothing the republicans will be able to do to stop us from marching forward.



Display:


Hear here (2.00 / 5)

I just get back from the farm and the first thing I see is something a kin to what I was going to write about later tonight.

Recced.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:32:40 PM EST

I agree. (none / 0)

Anyone who suggests not voting Dem in November beware.


by dystopianfuturetoday on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:51:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Not Trollism? (2.00 / 4)

Excellent suggestion.

I would suggest there are those here who make  intelligent considered srgument, that seem sincere, for withholding their vote while voting Dem down the ticket, or for changing their affiliation to Independent in protest over their concerns.  I would hate to see this or any other progressive site shut down considered genuine dissent in the name of "unity".  Such an approach is too creepy and totalitarian for my taste.

That said, the real Democrats here can easily spot the drive-by comments made only to foment further division.  I would suggest the following criteria for spotting a divisive troll comment:

1. the commentor uses a derogatory label for a fellow Democrat -- this shit really has to stop.  Even if there are real offended Democrats doing this, they need to cool off before they post one more insult to a comrade.  Don't like the company here?  Go away.

2. The commentor makes some old tired inflammatory statement about Obama or Clinton.  Critique is one thing -- smearing is another.  These comments are  intended only to rile up the other side and open the wound.

3. any personal attack on another poster.

4. comments that are obviously intended to pull the dialogue off the intention of the diary.  We've seen alot of piling on early in a comment thread where posters start in on something totally unrelated to the diary, probably to negate the diary's impact.  Anyone with a legitimate topic to raise can start their own diary on it.

5. Threats to screw with the TR system, comments that encourage others to uprate poor diaries just to screw up the board, those comments that clearly state the intent to screw with the board rules.  You don't like the rules find another place the play.  It's that simple.

I find it interesting how much abuse pops up whenever the legitmate members here make progress towards healing the divide.  It's like the word "unity" or "apology" is troll chum.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:42:09 PM EST

Re: Why Not Trollism? (2.00 / 4)

I would suggest there are those here who make  intelligent considered srgument, that seem sincere, for withholding their vote while voting Dem down the ticket, or for changing their affiliation to Independent in protest over their concerns

Though I may adamantly disagree with such decisions (and, equally adamantly disagree as to them being either intelligent or considered)....I agree that they are sincere and that those making them still have a rightful place here on MYDD.

What I cannot abide by are those who actively campaign FOR McCain or AGAINST the Democratic Candidate (be it Obama or Hillary). Those who actively seek to prevent others from voting for the Democrat for the Presidency and crow about their own decision not to do so. Those who do so here, on a site devoted to seeing Democrats elected, should (and will) be treated as trolls.


by Kysen on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting signature (2.00 / 2)

LOL


by Coldblue on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trolls are often sincere. (none / 0)

Divisiveness is the problem.


by dystopianfuturetoday on Mon May 19, 2008 at 04:51:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No thank you. (1.23 / 13)

Your definition of Unity requires me and many like me to follow the rest of you lemmings into the sea.

I don't swim.

And I don't like high flying dives.

So, unless and until you are willing to be united behind my candidate, then you can dive by yourself.


by Shazone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:44:41 PM EST

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 5)

This is EXACTLY what the diarist was referring to. Did you even bother to read the post?

Why do you have to call those who disagree with your apparent obsession of intentionally keeping the party divided b/c your preferred candidate lost "lemmings"?

If you don't have something constructive to say, but instead just want to whine, then don't say it.


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (1.50 / 2)

If you don't have something constructive to say, but instead just want to whine, then don't say it.
Here's something positive; 100% for HRC. Support all the way or don't support at all.


by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 3)

That's fine, as long as you throw that support behind the eventual nominee once it is official. If you don't, you're gonna have to find another site to bloviate on.


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 1)

There's more than ONE Dem vying for office in '08.  Or are you unaware of this?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:12:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 4)

What part of my post did you not understand?

I said "That's fine, as long as you throw that support behind the eventual nominee once it is official."

What part of that statement gave you the impression that I am unaware of Hillary Clinton's existence????


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 2)

What part of your comment acknowledges ALL Dems running for office?  Seems like blinders are on.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:25:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 2)

The part where I said "eventual nominee". If there was only one candidate left, I wouldn't have said "eventual nominee" (b/c that person would already be the nominee) would I?

I honestly can't fathom that there exist people with sensitivities so easily offended as this.


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (1.00 / 0)

Yup.  Blinders.  There are Congressional races, state and local races....


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (none / 0)

Oh.....so I have to mention every single Congressional candidate in a discussion that is obviously about the Presidential race now??? So as to not offend your sensitivities? LOL.

When you're in a hole, stop digging ChitownDenny.

You're making yourself seem even stupider with every single post. Just suck it up and admit you're wrong and try to save some face.


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:42:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (none / 0)

So be it. Threats will get you nowhere.


by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (none / 0)

Coming from your run-of-the-mill Clinton supporter who flatly says that she will bolt the party if her preferred candidate is not handed the nomination that she was too aroogant to work for, this is pretty fucking hilarious.


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The diarist said we should all come (1.14 / 7)

together behind your candidate - that's what his/her definition of unity means.

And I see that as absolute suicide - like those sad, stupid, little lemmings rushing to the sea.


by Shazone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist said we should all come (2.00 / 1)

Wow - more childishness.

Referring to him as "your" candidate......he's going to be the DEMOCRATIC candidate, whether you like it or not. If you can't reconcile with that, then you should leave now b/c Obama is the official nominee, and once he is official this site isn't going to tolerate those who openly do absolutley NOTHING but sit around and complain and moan and undercut the guy who won b/c they didn't vote for him.

Your comments are the equivalent of a child stomping her feet b/c he/she didn't get his/her way. Grow up.


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:08:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha Ha Ha Ha (1.00 / 4)


Your entire comment is so funny it's hard to even start to reply.

So I won't...except...

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


by Shazone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:30:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist said we should all come (none / 0)

I't not "your" candidate? Great! Vote Hillary!


by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:04:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist said we should all come (2.00 / 3)

I can't wait until Obama wins the nomination--not because I have a problem with Clinton, but just so that you'll finally leave or get purged from this site. Go troll somewhere else. We're all tired of it.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:36:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist said we should all come (none / 0)

why would people leave this site?  There are tons of progressives and other democrats that we can discuss here and support


by colebiancardi on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist said we should all come (none / 0)

i agree.  but they should keep their trolling about the race for president on another site.


by elie on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:40:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The diarist said we should all come (none / 0)

I'm not saying Clinton supporters in general would or should leave the site.

I'm saying those who are unfailingly negative and rude will hopefully leave at some point, or get booted. A person who proudly states that they will try to "have some negative impact on Obama" in the general election is a troll, plain and simple.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 6)

Well you see that's just it, because it's not a question of "my candidate." It's "our candidate." In the end there will be just one candidate, one ticket, that's the way it works. This site is dedicated to electing democrats. I think most of us regardless of side, would pretty much agree that in order to elect democrats, we need a unified party.

I am not saying that free expression is a bad thing. It's a good thing, and if that is your concern, maybe you shoud be here http://www.freeexpression.org/

The goal here is to elect democrats, that's why most of us are here. There is nothing wrong with developing the best strategy to achieve that aim


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:00:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But your candidate will never be my (2.00 / 1)

candidate.


by Shazone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (2.00 / 1)

There will be a top of the ticket candidate and the bottom of the ticket rest of candidtates.  Please do no presume to tell me how to vote for Dems.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (2.00 / 7)

sorry to hear that.  truly i am.  because MY candidate is the democratic nominee. period.

but you must wonder what your position adds to a site that is dedicated to getting DEMOCRATS elected.

if you don't believe in the stated purpose of this site, why are you here?


by elie on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (none / 0)

and if your candidate does not turn out to get the nomination?


by zerosumgame on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (2.00 / 3)

i am sorry if you misunderstood my post.  i only meant to say the MY candidate is the democratic nominee, whoever that might be, period.

i am a democrat.  i will support the democratic nominee.  

while i am an obama supporter, i was not trying to imply that he has won the nomination, only that i believe we should support the nom. i sincerely apologize for being unclear.


by elie on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (2.00 / 1)

that I can agree with 100%


by zerosumgame on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (1.00 / 0)

First of all, there is no nominee.  Secondly, there are down ticket races you should also consider.  I know, that's not glamorous.  But it is reality.  What's your position ALL the other Dems running for office?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (none / 0)

i don't quite understand your question.  yes, of course i think it is just as important to work for the downticket dems.

this is a big year for dems.  i truly believe we are going to pick up a large number of house seats, enough senate seats to tell lieberman to f--k off, control the white house and finally get this country back on track.  

that is why it is important to quit the partisan bickering and get down to the hard work of fixing this monolithic clusterf--k bush has got us in...


by elie on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But your candidate will never be my (2.00 / 1)

Why are you bringing this up? Are there some Democrats I am unaware of who have threatened to not vote for certain down-ticket Dems that I am unaware of?

Or is this just another one of your sad attempts to change the subject?


by Deano963 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (none / 0)

Why is this comment TR'ed? For god's sake people, grow up!


by grlpatriot on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (none / 0)

I'm guessing because it's trollish.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:31:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (2.00 / 5)

I am troll-rsting this comment in the spirit of the diary for use of the word "lemmings".

I was/am an ardent supporter of Clinton.  I have some serious work to do to get right with Obama.  I have at different times considered voting only down the ticket or even, for brief delusional moments of sheer spite, voting McCain.

But I realize a few things --

  1. McCain is a nutjob intent on four more years of Bush policy.  The country cannot sustain as I know it and love it through a MsCain presidency.
  2. This may be close and my vote will matter.  
  3.  I have supported Democrats in the past who I had less faith in than Obama.  Much of my angst is personal and I'm mature enough to acknowledge that.
  4. If Clinton herself can support Obama, so can I.  So can anyone who claims to be her supporter.

If I'm anything it's not a lemming.  I've never done anything because everyone else was doing it...just the opposite. That's probably half the reason i was turned off by Obama at the start -- everyone else I knew was doing it.

So knock off the blanket statements.  Talk about yourself, your own reasons.  You know nothing about me.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:40:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No thank you. (none / 0)

Excellent post.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:32:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Not Trollism? (2.00 / 7)

If you follow the rules of this site, you will maintain your privileges.  'Nuff said.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 05:56:50 PM EST

Exactly. Except The Obamamation (1.25 / 4)

wants to write yet another set of rulz.

And if we don't all follow in lock-step, we are naughty naughty people who must be punished.


by Shazone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:03:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (2.00 / 2)

Exactly!  We Appalchians just can't figure this out for ourselves.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (2.00 / 2)

IMO, the "can't we all just get along" diaries are a way to restrain Hillary supporters. It won't work.


by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (2.00 / 1)

Agreed.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (2.00 / 8)

You're completely wrong. I am a Hillary supporter. Check my diary and comment history to verify it. I would match my support with yours, in terms of money contributed and time expanded, any day.

I would bet that my position wanting to see a unified party comes a lot closer to Hillary's position than yours does. So pease don't tell me you are a Hillary supporter, while you can't see the need for a unified party, it's just not credible.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (1.50 / 2)

You're completely wrong.
Why? Because you say so?
I would match my support with yours, in terms of money contributed
You're a better supporter than I am because you contribute more money? That's sort of an elitist attitude isn't it?

You are a bit full of yourself aren't you? :D


by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (none / 0)

I don't think you followed. I said I would match my support with yours. I never said I was a better supporter.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:51:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Restrain? (2.00 / 3)

What the heck does that mean?  People that are genuinely trying to talk about unity and progress and getting past this finger-pointing emotional blame-game are some how holding you back?  What message were you going for here?  


by herenow on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Genuine"? I haven't seen anything (1.00 / 1)

genuine from a BO supporter in 6 months.


by Shazone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Genuine"? I haven't seen anything (none / 0)

You're not looking.  You are too angry to see it.  Take a break.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 19, 2008 at 06:34:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly. Except The Obamamation (2.00 / 1)

Nice


by herenow on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Not Trollism? (2.00 / 1)

Um, not really.

From what seems to have happened to many Obama supporters, you can lose your privileges simply from recommending a diary that certain admins don't like.

A lot of people like to bash dKos, but even dKos has never been that arbitrary or petty with the rules.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Not Trollism? (none / 0)

Exactly...as long as you are not campaigning FOR McCain or AGAINST the Democratic candidate....it's all good.

However, if you are promoting McCain, working to get others to vote against the Democratic candidate and crowing about it....then, per site/Admin guidelines, you are a troll and will be treated as such.


by Kysen on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

whether you like it or not (2.00 / 1)

there is still a primary going on and your candidate how not won, as much as he might like to declare victory.
So there are going to be diaries which seem divisive.  When one or the other candidate has been given the nomination in August then talk to me about unity.
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:22:10 PM EST

Re: whether you like it or not (2.00 / 5)

No one's candidate has officially won yet, that's a fair point, and people are going to boost their candidate. I know that fully well. I'm just suggesting that people begin posting things that serve the cause of unity in the party.

This has the potential to be a very big year. We can add as many as 30 House seats, and maybe 5-10 Senate seats. And we can retake the White House. If we do that we are in a position to do a lot of good. I think that's more important than anything else, and I don't want to see it all slip away, because we are not a unified party.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Sun May 18, 2008 at 06:30:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've never understood (2.00 / 0)

why people care and talk so much about troll ratings. I realize the hide ratings affect what people can see, but does it really matter if random internet guy A thinks that random internet gal B's comment deserves a 1 rather than a 2?
by JJE on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:32:12 PM EST

I think it is interesting that the (2.00 / 2)

same three to five people always post divisive stuff in these diaries.  They take every chance they can to remind the rest of us that it is, "My way or the highway," which causes me to wonder what their true motivation is in sharing for the 1,000th time (or more) that they don't care for unity.

I know, for my part, I heard them the last hundred or so times they said that stuff and I am way past trying to change their collective minds.  If they don't see the wisdom in voting for the candidate that is 95 percent same in terms of platform to their candidate (and this would go for both camps) then I really have nothing to say to them.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 07:42:38 PM EST

Re: I think it is interesting that the (none / 0)

I've got to question the intent of those sorts of comments.  Simple self expression?  i guess. It can't be to persuade others because the reasoning is either shabby or non-existent.  

It's one thing to intelligently discuss (with references) the possiblity of voting blocs crossing over or staying home -- it's another to declare one's intent to stay pissed and vote against the party with no reasoned rationale behind one's decision.  Why even bother to make the declaration?  Are we all supposed to give a damn how one person chooses to vote?

My conclusion?  Trollism.  Some stupid attempt to promote the notion of an irrepairable rift in the party.  I only wish the real Deomcrats on this site would learn to ignore them and not feed the trolls.  If every legitimate visitor did that, refused to "get in the arena" and engage these clowns, the game would get old and they'd go away.

Here's hoping.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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